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welcome thank you for joining us i'm

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linda billings a consultant to nasa's

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astrobiology program and i live and work

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in sarasota florida where i am right now

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i'm a co-chair of this program and my

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co-chair caitlin mcshea will be

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moderating tonight she'll introduce

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herself to you in a minute

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what we're going to discuss this evening

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is this how will the media and their

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audiences respond to the discovery of

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evidence of extraterrestrial life will

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it be a madhouse how long will it take

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for astrobiologists to prove that what

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they found is real

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how might you respond to an announcement

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of the possible detection of

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extraterrestrial life who would you

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trust to tell you the truth

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our panel of experts for this program

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are lisa isak professor of science

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fiction studies at georgia tech

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andre brock georgia tech professor and

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leading scholar of black cyber culture

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and tony harris broadcast journalist and

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host of the history channel's show the

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proof is out there this is going to be

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interesting

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caitlyn it's all yours that's upstairs

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all right well i do want to thank linda

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i'm sure she's watching right now so

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linda and i got in touch a couple of

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months ago to pull this together and

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linda did a lot of the

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organizing on the back end but i just

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want to point to lisa who did all the

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organizing obviously because of course

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um so thank you all for coming this

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should hopefully be a totally fun and

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inspiring conversation my name is

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caitlin mcshea i work at the santa fe

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institute and i'm the director of the

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interplanetary project i also manage a

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grant that is nationally science the

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national science foundation funds that's

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on origins of life research that might

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sound different than the search for

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aliens but life detection and origins of

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life are deeply coupled and so we're

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having this conversation in advance of

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the astrobiology science conver

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conversation convention that's happening

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actually right here um so my sample

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there are you based here where you been

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i'm dating something okay okay yes thank

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you atlanta for welcoming people

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i'm very happy to be here and i'm very

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happy to talk to the three of you

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because you all kind of represent really

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interesting steps of how individuals

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react to

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really important like schismatic

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paradigm shifting news like perhaps the

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discovery of aliens so whether or not

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that's through traditional journalism

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and how we get the people to trust us

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the diaphanous overlord that is our

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internet and the the artistic way that

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we sort of narratively

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with these these

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big changes and so that's who i am i'm

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daily and sell it i'm really happy to be

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here and i'm to turn it over to you and

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i'm going to ask you all oh

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sorry i know that i'm loud but this is

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better

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okay thank you um yes that's never been

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a problem but i'm going to turn it over

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to all of you because i have um i i

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think that you would do a better job of

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introducing yourselves and i'm

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particularly curious about

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what sort of uh sect of of global

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culture you guys represent and what

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you're hoping to find out of this

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conversation how aliens matter to

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y'all's worlds so i want to start with

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lisa yes good job today i'd like to

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start with lisa that's all right

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all right

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um hi everyone again i'm lisa yazic i'm

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a regents professor of science fiction

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studies here at georgia tech

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and i'm really interested in science

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fiction really believe it's the way we

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talk to each other about our experiences

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and hopes and fears about science and

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technology in the future and we can use

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it to talk to each other literally

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across centuries continents and cultures

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um i'm particularly interested in uh

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most of my work has been in uh women's

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science fiction science fiction um by

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black authors in particular and then

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also uh scientists involvement with and

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in relations to science fiction and so

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um part of what i'm hoping to get out of

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this tonight um is is to learn more

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about

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how how tony and andre see these kinds

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of ideas about alien life um circulating

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throughout their parts of popular

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culture i'm really interested i've done

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a lot of work on the ways that uh

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scientific ideas circulate from or well

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from popular culture to science to

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public policy or perhaps in some other

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way but the way it moves through those

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discourses so i'm excited to learn more

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about how they move through through

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twitter and uh television as well

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oh and i want to learn from all of you

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tonight i'm assuming a number of you out

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here are scientists or uh science

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fiction people or perhaps aliens

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yourselves so we're looking forward to

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oh hush andre you can take it next sure

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is this good marco okay i can hear so my

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name is andre brock i'm a colleague of

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leases in the school of literature media

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and communication here at georgia tech

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and my area of study is black folk on

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the internet i've been doing it for

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about 20 years now so

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from blogs to video games to social

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media and now my my current focus and

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has been for a little while is twitter

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right and i try to bring an

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understanding of blackness when there's

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nobody present

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in the digital and virtual spaces that

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we call the internet you know i'm i'm

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pretty good at it i do all right nice uh

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you'll talk a little bit more about that

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we have our own mic on this side thank

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you uh good people how are you

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so

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the history channel show the proof is

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out there uh friday nights at 10 pm

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eastern time we've got a a new set of

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shows that'll be rolling out in june

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from the skinwalker ranch is anyone

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watching any of the content on the

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history channel in this space

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anyone has anyone accidentally

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fallen

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on my show the proof is out there

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so uh i uh come to this from a

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journalism background

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so while the panelists may be interested

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in my perspective on this i am keenly

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interested in you know how you approach

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your work

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uh because i think there is a there's a

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next level i was just saying this to

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kayla i think there's a next level for

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our show to reach and a lot of what i'm

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interested in is

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you know your thoughts

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on what we're doing on the tv side how

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we can do it better how we can be more

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engaging i have a crazy twitter feed

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with people who are

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[Laughter]

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okay

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so

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you understand that

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but our show if you haven't seen it is

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take a look at and analyze so we've got

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a a great group of what we call experts

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and they are in their particular

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disciplines of

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forensic analysis whether it's audio

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whether it's video and and we've got

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uh gosh physicists and then a whole host

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of folks maybe

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uh

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trying to think we've got anyone from

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georgia tech who's the next

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bird on the show

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hello

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we do a little recruiting while i'm here

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so just sort of take a look at these

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videos so in essence we're a clip show

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of of what we find on the internet what

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people send to us

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but more and more um as

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congress looks into this space as nasa

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continues to look into the space i think

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you all know that there are

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congressional hearings on this next week

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right clearly our show will be following

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up on that when disclosure the

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disclosure paper was released

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i ended up doing two hours on that um

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and so what we try to do is render a

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verdict on the videos that we get

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uh sometimes it's inconclusive sometimes

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we we call it in uh our findings um

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you know an alien

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because there's a technical definition

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of what that is and don't ask me to call

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it out to you right now i know like

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caitlyn

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um but yeah so it's it's been a who to

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do and

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the engagement of this audience has been

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more than than i ever anticipated i

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thought we would do 10 episodes of the

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show and then we move on

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here we are now about to shoot uh our

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third season and at the end of the third

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season we'll be up over 100 episodes of

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this show which is insane

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um particularly for someone who spent

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the better part of 30

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some odd years

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uh in the journalism space straight up

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journalism space from cnn to al jazeera

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english in the middle east covering the

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arab spring to to find myself in this

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space is just a hoot uh never

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anticipated it but um i'm happy to be

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here and i'm happy to learn from you all

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in this panel

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um as we try to make our show better and

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and communicate this this

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this frontier

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to um an audience that really seems to

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be into it so i'm happy to be here

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that's way too long sorry we're happy

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you're here

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um so with that i think you know there's

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sort of a timeline that i'm hoping to

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follow with this conversation of course

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you're all here because we're sort of

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settling in the speculative space that

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alien life has been discovered and what

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does that mean but before we get there i

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think it would be really interesting to

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reflect upon the way that aliens have

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been

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represented across various forms of

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media in this sort of like pre-discovery

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phase

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theoretically until we have an example

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of astrobiology every

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aliens if unconfirmed is necessarily

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imaginative and speculative and so i

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wonder how those representations kind of

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mediate our experience in the universe

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and allow us to understand ourselves and

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i think that we have a lot of media to

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cover here so i don't know who wants to

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take that first but that's sort of my

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i would like to know how representations

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of aliens pre-discovery in this moment

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before we have them

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right now the moment that we're in now

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before we get speculative and then i say

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we're in that moment um how

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representations of aliens

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matter or factor to the way that we

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navigate the universe

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take it i will i've talked about this

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before

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who watched the amc james cameron's

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story of science fiction and you'll hear

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00:09:53,829 --> 00:09:52,640
me say thank you i thought it was really

280
00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:53,839
fun i liked being on it how many

281
00:09:57,670 --> 00:09:56,080
episodes were you in

282
00:09:59,750 --> 00:09:57,680
how many episodes

283
00:10:01,350 --> 00:09:59,760
six i'm in all this one

284
00:10:03,509 --> 00:10:01,360
just one just one

285
00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:03,519
it's a great series though and they told

286
00:10:07,430 --> 00:10:04,880
me that me and steven spielberg were the

287
00:10:09,509 --> 00:10:07,440
two nicest people to work with so

288
00:10:11,430 --> 00:10:09,519
all right so we were the only ones who

289
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:11,440
actually like looked at the questions in

290
00:10:17,590 --> 00:10:13,600
advance apparently

291
00:10:20,550 --> 00:10:19,269
really i i

292
00:10:21,990 --> 00:10:20,560
i mean this really is like i think the

293
00:10:23,430 --> 00:10:22,000
science fiction question because right

294
00:10:25,509 --> 00:10:23,440
this is where we get our ideas about

295
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:25,519
aliens from our from science fiction and

296
00:10:29,350 --> 00:10:26,959
especially i would say from media

297
00:10:31,269 --> 00:10:29,360
science fiction and at least for the you

298
00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:31,279
know i'd say um the world community at

299
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:32,640
large most people i think get their

300
00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:35,519
science fiction uh that way some of you

301
00:10:38,870 --> 00:10:36,800
might be readers though but as we all

302
00:10:41,509 --> 00:10:38,880
know right science fiction especially in

303
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:41,519
film uh and and on television maybe to a

304
00:10:44,790 --> 00:10:43,200
lesser extent sorta has always had two

305
00:10:46,310 --> 00:10:44,800
ways of representing aliens broadly

306
00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:46,320
speaking they're either humanoid and

307
00:10:48,870 --> 00:10:47,519
they look a lot like us and if they're

308
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:48,880
lucky they're on star trek and they have

309
00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:51,519
very attractive um you know uh let's

310
00:10:55,269 --> 00:10:54,240
make clear their humanoid similarities

311
00:10:58,069 --> 00:10:55,279
to us right

312
00:11:00,150 --> 00:10:58,079
or they are that very opposite thing to

313
00:11:01,829 --> 00:11:00,160
us those social creatures that act with

314
00:11:04,470 --> 00:11:01,839
hive minds they're bugs bug-eyed

315
00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:04,480
monsters literal bugs for instance

316
00:11:08,630 --> 00:11:06,800
starship troopers right exactly

317
00:11:09,590 --> 00:11:08,640
sometimes like in the andromeda strain

318
00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:09,600
they're like

319
00:11:13,509 --> 00:11:12,000
small bugs viruses things like that and

320
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:13,519
so generally those are the two ways that

321
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,000
we've seen those uh aliens represented

322
00:11:20,949 --> 00:11:18,560
and that comes out of the long history

323
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:20,959
of colonization right science fiction

324
00:11:28,630 --> 00:11:25,120
grows up in the 19th century modeled on

325
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:28,640
the colonization and discovery voyages

326
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:31,200
undertaken by people throughout the west

327
00:11:34,949 --> 00:11:32,720
but really people are modeling their

328
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:34,959
early encounters with aliens on our

329
00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:36,720
encounters or on on white people's

330
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:38,880
encounters with other humans who didn't

331
00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:41,200
quite look like them necessarily right

332
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:43,120
and so no wonder and this is all during

333
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:45,360
darwinism so no wonder it's either like

334
00:11:50,150 --> 00:11:48,160
human men like in competition with

335
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:50,160
bug-eyed monsters for scarce resources

336
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:52,480
like water and women think flash gordon

337
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:55,360
here right exactly um

338
00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:56,560
or

339
00:12:03,829 --> 00:11:59,920
gonna be that i was gonna talk about oh

340
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:03,839
or or else um brave strong um manly men

341
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:06,800
human men are are both attracted to and

342
00:12:11,350 --> 00:12:08,800
yet threatened by beautiful alien

343
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:11,360
monsters who are just as sexy as human

344
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,200
women but have a lot more knowledge and

345
00:12:16,710 --> 00:12:15,600
technology than the men do right and so

346
00:12:18,310 --> 00:12:16,720
you got to find a way to get those

347
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:18,320
things under control i think if any of

348
00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:20,000
you have ever seen

349
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:22,639
um forbidden planet alta the scientist

350
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:24,320
daughter she sort of is like that alien

351
00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:25,760
figure right because she's not raised

352
00:12:29,670 --> 00:12:28,000
around humans and so she acts like a man

353
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,680
which they all find very upsetting and

354
00:12:33,030 --> 00:12:31,360
titillating all at once this is the

355
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:33,040
1950s guys

356
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:35,120
although the sex jokes in that movie are

357
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:37,200
shocking i have to say all right so

358
00:12:41,190 --> 00:12:38,720
anyways i think that that's where most

359
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:41,200
of our our images come from i do i know

360
00:12:44,629 --> 00:12:43,120
i'm the one going on forever right

361
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:44,639
france science fiction has been i think

362
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:47,680
a little bit more um creative with its

363
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:49,279
representations of aliens and i think

364
00:12:53,030 --> 00:12:51,440
that's in part because print and to a

365
00:12:54,949 --> 00:12:53,040
certain extent this is true of games and

366
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,959
comics as well they don't have to make

367
00:12:59,110 --> 00:12:56,480
the kind of money they're not in the

368
00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,120
same economic sort of production system

369
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,519
as movies movies and tv shows have to

370
00:13:04,790 --> 00:13:02,959
make back all the money that go into

371
00:13:06,310 --> 00:13:04,800
them and so you go with what's safe and

372
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:06,320
you tend to keep doing the same images

373
00:13:10,629 --> 00:13:08,240
over and over again and the ones that

374
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:10,639
work right but lisa can i ask you what

375
00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:11,760
what is

376
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,000
so for someone like me who you know oh

377
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:16,240
i'm sorry

378
00:13:19,110 --> 00:13:17,680
for someone like me who grew up you know

379
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:19,120
inner city baltimore and this and the

380
00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:22,240
other and and and the whole notion of of

381
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:24,959
alien life comes to me from

382
00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:26,639
james t kirk

383
00:13:30,069 --> 00:13:28,639
right right right and so i'm i'm

384
00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:30,079
wondering

385
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:32,320
you know uh as as i sort of work through

386
00:13:35,590 --> 00:13:34,000
this show and i'm trying to understand

387
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:35,600
and get and get

388
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:37,920
better understanding of what i am to

389
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:39,519
think of this world that i'm now

390
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:41,120
inhabiting

391
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:42,240
um

392
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:44,000
what am i to think about those those

393
00:13:49,509 --> 00:13:47,199
early images and and of men and women

394
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:49,519
and how they're interacting and and and

395
00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:51,760
what science fiction it's it's the

396
00:13:56,870 --> 00:13:53,600
science

397
00:13:59,509 --> 00:13:56,880
that grounds us right and the fiction

398
00:14:01,189 --> 00:13:59,519
is forward casting or future casting

399
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:01,199
right necessarily i think it's actually

400
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:07,350
yes good pivot there

401
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,760
he's an experienced journalist right

402
00:14:12,629 --> 00:14:11,279
um but i think it's actually the exact

403
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:12,639
opposite we don't know what aliens are

404
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:13,680
going to look like right so we

405
00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:15,680
extrapolate them off our own encounters

406
00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:18,320
with alien others in our own world

407
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:19,920
uh whether that

408
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:22,160
with a racial other or a sex or gendered

409
00:14:25,990 --> 00:14:24,079
other or i don't know a disciplinary

410
00:14:27,350 --> 00:14:26,000
other i can say to you guys for it as a

411
00:14:29,910 --> 00:14:27,360
science fiction scholar talking probably

412
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:29,920
to a lot of scientists here um and it's

413
00:14:34,150 --> 00:14:32,240
actually it's those gendered and raced

414
00:14:35,990 --> 00:14:34,160
markers that anchor it in the real like

415
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:36,000
we don't know what alien life is going

416
00:14:57,269 --> 00:14:55,910
i mean and profoundly so

417
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:57,279
i'm gonna stop there then i've got tony

418
00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:00,160
wowie yeah that's good

419
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:02,560
andre take it away my contribution to

420
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:04,000
this would be from the other side so

421
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:06,959
lisa smartly mentions that a lot of

422
00:15:11,269 --> 00:15:09,440
science fiction has placed certain

423
00:15:13,110 --> 00:15:11,279
bodies certain

424
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:13,120
nations certain religions as others

425
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:14,720
right and i would add fantasy to that as

426
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:16,240
well right those of you familiar with

427
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:18,160
lord of the rings are very much aware of

428
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:21,680
how um tolkien viewed racial others

429
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:24,000
right or even the elves right uh for me

430
00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:26,399
though my work has as i mentioned

431
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:28,480
at the introductions i've always been

432
00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:29,920
curious to see how black folk are

433
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:31,600
represented in these other worldly

434
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:32,720
narratives i've been reading science

435
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:34,560
fiction since i was a kid i was raised

436
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:36,000
who was the guy who was doing the mayan

437
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:38,320
pyramids and the the things from space i

438
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:40,079
can't remember gosh i both have read him

439
00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:41,040
too i don't know what i'm talking about

440
00:15:44,710 --> 00:15:43,120
yes maybe you maybe you are all of a

441
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:44,720
certain age there used to be this huge

442
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:45,920
thing where they would look at these

443
00:15:49,269 --> 00:15:47,680
crop circles or these images in the

444
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:49,279
mayan mountains about how they had

445
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,000
certain things right uh and then from

446
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,720
there uh my upbringing also included

447
00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:55,920
large amounts of parliament and

448
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:59,269
right

449
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,199
black folk envision themselves as being

450
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,360
freed of these earthly bonds and being

451
00:16:07,030 --> 00:16:05,040
able to take both their style and their

452
00:16:08,949 --> 00:16:07,040
substance the funk and the technology

453
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:08,959
out in the space right and so for me

454
00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:10,320
i've always been interested to

455
00:16:16,150 --> 00:16:12,959
understand um what it means to be the

456
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,160
other the alien in western society right

457
00:16:19,910 --> 00:16:18,399
uh even as my body in many ways looks

458
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:19,920
just like yours from the epidermis

459
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:22,959
inside right uh and so that has actually

460
00:16:27,189 --> 00:16:25,519
led me directly to my investigation

461
00:16:28,389 --> 00:16:27,199
because the internet is also if you

462
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:28,399
think about it a science fiction all

463
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:30,240
kind of place i'm old enough to remember

464
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:32,959
uh where we just had labs or time shares

465
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:34,720
right on computers we did not all have

466
00:16:39,030 --> 00:16:37,759
personal computers right uh and

467
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:39,040
i remember a time when answering

468
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:40,720
machines were considered the height of

469
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:43,199
technology

470
00:16:48,310 --> 00:16:45,600
right and so uh understanding the ways

471
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:48,320
that we are now able to invent invest

472
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:51,199
and produce ourselves and virtual spaces

473
00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:52,480
and online spaces whether it's your

474
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:54,399
children playing fork knife and i know i

475
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:56,880
mispronounced it on purpose right

476
00:17:00,790 --> 00:16:58,880
or it's you yourself arguing with your

477
00:17:02,470 --> 00:17:00,800
people of a certain age on facebook

478
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:02,480
right we have taken these taken to these

479
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:04,240
virtual spaces and brought ourselves to

480
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:06,160
them yet and still black folk are not

481
00:17:10,309 --> 00:17:08,319
necessarily understood as appropriate

482
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:10,319
users of these spaces and so that part

483
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:12,000
has always been exciting to me because

484
00:17:15,590 --> 00:17:13,280
technically

485
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:15,600
technologically right those spaces

486
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:17,360
should be equitable not necessarily

487
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:19,199
democratic right because democratic is

488
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:21,760
kind of a artifact of what how americans

489
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:23,360
think the world should be as opposed to

490
00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:25,439
how the world actually is but spaces

491
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:27,360
where we should have a flat hierarchy of

492
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:29,440
representation and yet still for some

493
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:31,520
reason black folks still find themselves

494
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:34,400
at a divide right they're both uh some

495
00:17:39,909 --> 00:17:36,720
of the most wildly inventive it's highly

496
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:39,919
stylistic uh deeply sought after taste

497
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:42,880
makers and they're also considered the

498
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:45,280
most rabble-rousing mob culture cancel

499
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,120
culture people in the same space and i'm

500
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:49,120
like well why why if we're in a virtual

501
00:17:52,870 --> 00:17:51,200
space not even outer space why do we

502
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:52,880
still retain these these types of things

503
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,799
so i'll leave i'll stop there because i

504
00:17:58,870 --> 00:17:56,640
don't have as much and the only thing i

505
00:18:01,950 --> 00:17:58,880
would add to that

506
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:05,230
1977. so the yes it was james t kirk in

507
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:07,600
1977. i was just graduating from high

508
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:10,799
school yeah i'm 62 years old which means

509
00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:13,679
which means i was at the baltimore civic

510
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:14,559
center

511
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:15,440
when

512
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:17,840
george clinton brought

513
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,039
the

514
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:21,200
leadership connections

515
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:22,160
tour

516
00:18:26,310 --> 00:18:25,200
to baltimore with the spaceship coming

517
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:26,320
down

518
00:18:30,789 --> 00:18:28,799
yes that's all i bet this spaceship is

519
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:30,799
in the smithsonian museum now is it

520
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:32,400
really yes okay

521
00:18:36,549 --> 00:18:34,480
i'm trying to find other artifacts or

522
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:36,559
whatever else to place on the set

523
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:37,840
right

524
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:39,360
and i'll keep looking well i want to

525
00:18:41,830 --> 00:18:40,559
stick with this notion of otherness

526
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:41,840
because this is really exciting to me i

527
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:43,360
think when we think about how aliens are

528
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:45,200
represented in fiction um and i just

529
00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:46,480
want to say i think the forbidden planet

530
00:18:48,870 --> 00:18:47,919
is an excellent example but i also want

531
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:48,880
to say that that's actually an

532
00:18:51,110 --> 00:18:50,320
adaptation of shakespeare's tempest so

533
00:18:54,549 --> 00:18:51,120
this is something that we've been

534
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:56,230
well but who's colonization did they

535
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:57,840
leave and colonize the mountain and now

536
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:59,679
people are recolonizing the island it's

537
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:00,960
like it's it's questionable and it goes

538
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:02,640
in both directions i don't know a bunch

539
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:04,320
of white guys kick a black woman off the

540
00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:05,919
island and take her in sleep or son i

541
00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:07,440
think that's cigarettes

542
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:09,120
right but then but then you could make

543
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:11,039
the arguments prosperous is now like

544
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:12,720
kind of the the island

545
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:14,400
yeah i'm just saying it goes it's

546
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:16,320
omnidirectional but it's a question that

547
00:19:19,909 --> 00:19:18,160
we've been tampering with for a while i

548
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:19,919
really like this idea that maybe there's

549
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:21,919
um this sort of like afrofuturistic

550
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:24,480
diaspora that's looking to like maintain

551
00:19:27,190 --> 00:19:26,000
the otherness by going out there

552
00:19:29,350 --> 00:19:27,200
bringing what's theirs that's

553
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:29,360
unrecognized elsewhere and so then i

554
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:31,360
guess my question is if we find a truly

555
00:19:35,909 --> 00:19:34,080
other other how does that change the way

556
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:35,919
that we understand ourselves do you

557
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:38,559
think we will absolutely

558
00:19:41,230 --> 00:19:39,919
for sure

559
00:19:42,870 --> 00:19:41,240
do you think we will find

560
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:42,880
[Music]

561
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:46,160
that's right on mars

562
00:19:48,549 --> 00:19:47,440
i don't know

563
00:19:49,510 --> 00:19:48,559
it depends on what we're looking for

564
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:49,520
maybe we were looking for the wrong

565
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:50,720
things the last time we sent those

566
00:19:54,230 --> 00:19:52,720
missions out there anyway so that's my

567
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:54,240
question how does otherness change when

568
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:55,520
another other comes around and it

569
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:57,280
becomes a little different than

570
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:59,039
selective elective etcetera and express

571
00:20:01,990 --> 00:20:00,880
an expression if this is dead we're

572
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:02,000
going to have to just share the word

573
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:03,520
great i want to i want to redirect

574
00:20:06,310 --> 00:20:04,720
slightly though yeah i'm going to bring

575
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:06,320
you in this conversation as my moderator

576
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:08,240
if you don't mind but how does your

577
00:20:13,750 --> 00:20:09,840
field understand

578
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:13,760
otherness right uh there you go

579
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:16,000
uh not only race but including race and

580
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,400
gender right but as are microcellular

581
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:20,400
organisms that exobiologists and

582
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:22,320
astrobiologists want to want to study

583
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:24,080
are they considered dramatically

584
00:20:27,190 --> 00:20:25,919
different from earthly organisms right

585
00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:27,200
yes

586
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,200
thank you for the setup so um i would

587
00:20:32,149 --> 00:20:30,559
say that the the kind of sect that i

588
00:20:34,390 --> 00:20:32,159
fall into in terms of my interest in

589
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:34,400
astrobiology is the agnostic sect and so

590
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:35,760
the mission that i was just recently

591
00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:37,120
referring to is the viking missions and

592
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:38,480
the viking missions went to mars looking

593
00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:41,120
for like habitability water or signs of

594
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:43,200
life dna but the idea that we're gonna

595
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:44,559
find life that looks just like ours on

596
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:46,320
planets that look nothing like ours is

597
00:20:50,149 --> 00:20:48,240
sort of preposterous and limited and so

598
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:50,159
i'm much more interested in the agnostic

599
00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:51,600
camp that's looking for

600
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:53,520
sort of generalities across life because

601
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:55,280
we expect that these weird places are

602
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:56,400
going to generate weird life that we

603
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:58,559
couldn't possibly recognize so i'm like

604
00:21:01,590 --> 00:21:00,080
really interested in the way that life

605
00:21:03,830 --> 00:21:01,600
does stuff as opposed to what it's made

606
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:03,840
out of and for me just philosophically

607
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:05,200
my like hypothesis and there's a group

608
00:21:09,190 --> 00:21:07,760
of people who are doing this formally um

609
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:09,200
it seems that life makes interesting

610
00:21:13,190 --> 00:21:11,039
things out of stuff and so if we had a

611
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:13,200
way to sort of find that in the universe

612
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:14,400
i think we'd have a much better

613
00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:16,640
opportunity of finding life and when we

614
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:18,720
do it will be extremely other to what

615
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:20,240
we're used to because we're really an n

616
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:21,840
of one even though we've got this

617
00:21:25,590 --> 00:21:23,360
tremendous biodiversity across the

618
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:25,600
planet we're one biological example in

619
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:28,000
the universe so even if we do manage to

620
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:29,520
find something through some lens and for

621
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:31,600
me it's artistry if we find some sort of

622
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:33,840
thing that's making art out there

623
00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:34,880
even though it's going to look so

624
00:21:38,070 --> 00:21:36,400
utterly bizarro different from us

625
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:38,080
necessarily if it's life and we agree

626
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:39,360
that it's life and we agree that we're

627
00:21:42,470 --> 00:21:40,799
life then it's going to point to some

628
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:42,480
commonality that i think will be

629
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:44,559
extremely informative to like the big

630
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:46,960
question the why of being the why are we

631
00:21:51,270 --> 00:21:49,440
here so that's my sort of so i would say

632
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:51,280
extremely agnostic even beyond cells

633
00:21:55,110 --> 00:21:52,960
even beyond microorganisms i'm talking

634
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:55,120
like maybe crystal sand structures or

635
00:21:58,789 --> 00:21:56,880
just weird little dynamical processes

636
00:22:00,630 --> 00:21:58,799
and little caverns who knows where i'm

637
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,640
always worried that weyland yutani will

638
00:22:05,350 --> 00:22:02,799
come in and we'll have to send signing

639
00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:05,360
weaver back out to congress

640
00:22:08,630 --> 00:22:06,880
so your question was the other other

641
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:08,640
yeah so what happens with like a stand

642
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:09,840
structure if we all agree that there's

643
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:11,280
sufficient evidence to call this sand

644
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:14,080
structure life how does that make um the

645
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:16,080
otherness within our own representations

646
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:17,760
in the world different how do we how do

647
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:31,590
whatever evidence we find and it seems

648
00:22:35,909 --> 00:22:33,360
to me that that

649
00:22:38,149 --> 00:22:35,919
today 2022. i don't even think there's a

650
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:38,159
unified response at this panel no i mean

651
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:39,760
yeah i mean definitely you can i mean i

652
00:22:44,710 --> 00:22:42,480
was going to say that today to 2022 but

653
00:22:46,710 --> 00:22:44,720
any time i mean i think that human

654
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:46,720
humans are varied and i mean i mean like

655
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:48,320
we're evolutionarily evolved to have

656
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:49,600
different perceptions to a certain

657
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:51,440
extent right i mean there's overlap but

658
00:22:56,149 --> 00:22:54,640
there's these differences as well so um

659
00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:56,159
first of all i'm not sure it would unify

660
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:57,679
us right um

661
00:23:01,510 --> 00:23:00,320
and if anything right i i remember i was

662
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:01,520
talking to someone here at georgia tech

663
00:23:05,029 --> 00:23:02,880
and i said do you think we're gonna find

664
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:05,039
alien life soon and he was like yeah

665
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,200
five to ten years in the thermal vents

666
00:23:12,149 --> 00:23:09,520
in you know one of like maybe jupiter's

667
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:12,159
or saturn satellites and then he got to

668
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:14,320
just dreamy and kind of yet evil look on

669
00:23:17,909 --> 00:23:15,840
his face inside and it's going to mess

670
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:17,919
up everywhere

671
00:23:22,230 --> 00:23:20,320
that i think is part of where right like

672
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:22,240
you're like oh is this going to shift

673
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,159
our representations and it's like only

674
00:23:28,470 --> 00:23:26,320
if it shifts our minds right i think a

675
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,480
lot of people especially those of us um

676
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,559
who are conditioned on movies until that

677
00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:32,400
alien comes down looks you in the eye

678
00:23:35,909 --> 00:23:34,000
and shoots first and asks questions

679
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:35,919
later you're not going to recognize it

680
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:38,880
right um but there's been like alternate

681
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:40,720
sets of science fiction stories that do

682
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:43,200
imagine truly other aliens right not

683
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:45,440
just a racial or gendered other but like

684
00:23:51,029 --> 00:23:46,880
there's been stories since the beginning

685
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:51,039
about like gas giant aliens or um

686
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:52,400
i'm trying to think of some very

687
00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:53,919
different ones like cloud giants

688
00:23:56,710 --> 00:23:55,679
electrical beings all sorts of things

689
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:56,720
that would be very different than

690
00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:58,960
ascension planets those have been hugely

691
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:00,960
popular especially since the gaia theory

692
00:24:06,310 --> 00:24:04,640
right in the 60s um so my favorite is

693
00:24:08,310 --> 00:24:06,320
sherry tepper's grass where it's a

694
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:08,320
planet full of sentient grass i mean

695
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,559
that's amazing right and do you know

696
00:24:14,789 --> 00:24:12,720
nick woods lasagna this is great it's

697
00:24:16,390 --> 00:24:14,799
about africans going to another planet

698
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:16,400
and the planet is sentient it's trying

699
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:17,679
to talk to them but it can only talk to

700
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:18,400
them

701
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:20,720
by by triggering like uh physical

702
00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:22,559
uneasiness in them and an illness so

703
00:24:25,830 --> 00:24:23,919
they think that they're sick and going

704
00:24:27,830 --> 00:24:25,840
crazy at first and then they realize the

705
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:27,840
plan is trying to talk to them and

706
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:29,360
and and and this is enough of a shift

707
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:30,799
that they're then able to sort of

708
00:24:32,950 --> 00:24:32,000
coexist and go out and talk with the

709
00:24:34,789 --> 00:24:32,960
plant but they never figure out what

710
00:24:36,149 --> 00:24:34,799
they're saying to it solaris talk about

711
00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:36,159
a planet that you never know what you're

712
00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:38,000
taught was talking about right

713
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:39,919
so we i think we do already have this

714
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:42,640
tradition of thinking of sort of othered

715
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:44,640
kinds of beings but

716
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:46,720
um how and when that's going to affect i

717
00:24:50,310 --> 00:24:48,159
don't know i i just i don't think we're

718
00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:50,320
going to find consensus unless it shoots

719
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:52,000
us no no i think that's right mars

720
00:24:54,789 --> 00:24:53,679
attacks you know i just want to address

721
00:24:56,070 --> 00:24:54,799
one thing

722
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:56,080
already i think and you brought this up

723
00:24:59,350 --> 00:24:57,520
earlier in your kind of history of

724
00:25:00,630 --> 00:24:59,360
science fiction is that and that's what

725
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:00,640
the viking missions were doing it's like

726
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:02,720
we tend to anthropomorphize our like

727
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:04,799
search for the for the world and so even

728
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:06,400
if we recognize otherness in these like

729
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:08,000
like the sentient water and solaris for

730
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:09,360
instance then stanislaw is brilliant

731
00:25:13,269 --> 00:25:11,520
like that was great but yet we still

732
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:13,279
imbue something like sentience when

733
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:14,400
we're talking about life and it's not

734
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:15,360
clear to me that we're going to find

735
00:25:19,190 --> 00:25:17,600
sentient life first like so i think the

736
00:25:21,190 --> 00:25:19,200
thing that we find which is utterly

737
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,200
other other other we have to strip as

738
00:25:24,470 --> 00:25:22,880
much of ourselves out of it in order to

739
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:24,480
recognize it and i think that yeah i'm

740
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,679
not saying it's going to be this grand

741
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:27,520
galvanizing event i think that like

742
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:28,640
there are i mean you can think about

743
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:30,240
when heliocentrism was proven and then

744
00:25:33,510 --> 00:25:31,520
like we went to war with each other like

745
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:33,520
this could be like a huge catastrophe

746
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:35,120
i'm optimistic but i have to like

747
00:25:38,310 --> 00:25:36,960
prepare for the but even still it's like

748
00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:38,320
even when we try to be as agnostic at

749
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:39,600
our perspective we can't help but see

750
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:40,640
ourselves in everything we're looking

751
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:43,600
for and it's problematic it's true

752
00:25:46,789 --> 00:25:45,679
so just to add on to this topic of how

753
00:25:51,029 --> 00:25:46,799
different

754
00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:51,039
would deal with an alien threat i'm

755
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,960
reminded of derek bell space traders

756
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:54,960
right which is so u.s centric right they

757
00:25:58,630 --> 00:25:56,400
sent the entire african-american

758
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:58,640
population to space in return for these

759
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:01,840
aliens promises of unlimited uh material

760
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:04,480
wealth cleaning up our uh climate issues

761
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:05,600
and there was something else i can't

762
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:07,600
remember right and that was the bargain

763
00:26:10,789 --> 00:26:09,120
that the white folk in the united states

764
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:10,799
were like well we're just gonna have to

765
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,320
let y'all go see y'all later have a good

766
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:14,480
trip right but i always thought about it

767
00:26:19,110 --> 00:26:17,039
as there's another continent

768
00:26:21,430 --> 00:26:19,120
full of black people what if the aliens

769
00:26:23,190 --> 00:26:21,440
had gone to

770
00:26:24,710 --> 00:26:23,200
first right

771
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:24,720
and how would that change things and so

772
00:26:28,549 --> 00:26:26,960
my understanding of other and alien

773
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:28,559
largely depends on the context in which

774
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:29,919
you understand the alienness to

775
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,240
originate from right and so

776
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:34,320
uh to me the expanse the recent tb

777
00:26:37,590 --> 00:26:36,159
series is a really good example even

778
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:37,600
though they abandoned it towards the end

779
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:39,840
of the last season right but that blue

780
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:41,600
goo that was taking over people's bodies

781
00:26:45,590 --> 00:26:43,600
and creating hyper space jump portals

782
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:45,600
whatever that was truly alien to them

783
00:26:49,590 --> 00:26:47,200
the entire time and yet they managed to

784
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:49,600
overlay human political motives on top

785
00:26:54,549 --> 00:26:51,679
of it right and i see that no matter

786
00:26:56,390 --> 00:26:54,559
what type of um sentience if that could

787
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:56,400
be said that will happen we will still

788
00:26:59,830 --> 00:26:58,320
overlay our politics on top of it which

789
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,840
is a problem for me because i'm usually

790
00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:01,679
at the back end of that line

791
00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:03,039
i'm sorry

792
00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:03,840
i mean

793
00:27:08,070 --> 00:27:06,880
i almost feel like you're describing

794
00:27:09,909 --> 00:27:08,080
the limits of

795
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:09,919
the great creative community's

796
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:12,080
imagination and its ability to imagine

797
00:27:15,510 --> 00:27:14,000
what that might look like right so if if

798
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:15,520
you've got the use but then you're gonna

799
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:18,559
still do the overlay i'm sorry and then

800
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:21,279
you know that feels like

801
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:22,960
we're not

802
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:25,120
a failure of imagination to think about

803
00:27:28,630 --> 00:27:26,480
outside of the box and what that might

804
00:27:30,389 --> 00:27:28,640
actually mean and i i know you want to

805
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,399
say something i just want to jump in on

806
00:27:34,230 --> 00:27:32,000
that though one of the

807
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:34,240
philosophies i follow as i write is this

808
00:27:39,110 --> 00:27:36,559
uh philosophy called afro-pessimism and

809
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:39,120
afro-pessimism moves from this idea

810
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:41,279
called anti-blackness which states that

811
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:43,440
the black is incommensurable with

812
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:46,559
western civil society right not not that

813
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:48,880
it can be seen or can be heard but

814
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,200
anything it says is unintelligible right

815
00:27:55,350 --> 00:27:53,679
and to me that's really uh a powerful

816
00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:55,360
formulation to understand what would

817
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:56,880
happen if we did encounter an alien

818
00:28:00,710 --> 00:27:59,039
space right if you're if they're so

819
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:00,720
imagine if their imaginations are so

820
00:28:04,950 --> 00:28:02,960
strong that they can completely wipe out

821
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:04,960
an entire two-thirds of the planet to

822
00:28:08,230 --> 00:28:06,880
say okay we don't see you we don't hear

823
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:08,240
you you don't have any value you can

824
00:28:12,149 --> 00:28:10,080
never create anything of value what will

825
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:12,159
we possibly do with something that we

826
00:28:14,830 --> 00:28:14,000
basically can't even build that ground

827
00:28:16,549 --> 00:28:14,840
on

828
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,559
sorry

829
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:17,679
i don't think i have anything to add to

830
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,679
that oh wait i do actually have any of

831
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:21,520
you read tade thompson's rosewater

832
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:24,399
trilogy oh yeah because this i mean

833
00:28:27,990 --> 00:28:25,919
first of all it's literally it tate

834
00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:28,000
thompson is a nigerian author living in

835
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:29,440
great britain right now and it's a

836
00:28:33,430 --> 00:28:30,960
marvelous story and it

837
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,440
the aliens did land in in nigeria

838
00:28:37,029 --> 00:28:35,200
instead of actually they go to london

839
00:28:39,029 --> 00:28:37,039
and it's it's stupid and it sucks and

840
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:39,039
then it doesn't work out and they uh and

841
00:28:42,950 --> 00:28:40,480
then they're like okay and so they end

842
00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:42,960
up going to africa but nanadi okorafor's

843
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:44,720
lagoon is also about that and we're

844
00:28:48,710 --> 00:28:46,799
increasingly seeing that as authors from

845
00:28:51,110 --> 00:28:48,720
other countries imagining what it would

846
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,120
be like if aliens landed on their turf

847
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:52,880
right instead of on the united states as

848
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:54,480
turf and often in these stories the

849
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:56,240
united states is really marginalized in

850
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:58,720
a lot of other ways as well um so that's

851
00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:00,320
interesting and maybe that's a place to

852
00:29:04,230 --> 00:29:03,440
look for other kinds of stories and

853
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:04,240
uh

854
00:29:07,430 --> 00:29:05,440
well you're still not going to get out

855
00:29:09,029 --> 00:29:07,440
of the sentience thing it's always about

856
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:09,039
sentences so what

857
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:10,720
as someone who's working in this space i

858
00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:13,200
mean how do i prepare an audience how do

859
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:15,840
i talk to an audience to broaden

860
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:18,080
an audience's sense of what this might

861
00:29:22,870 --> 00:29:20,799
look like right how do

862
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:22,880
stanley g wine bombs a martian odyssey

863
00:29:27,909 --> 00:29:25,679
from 1934 which has it's really good

864
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,919
it's one of the first stories to imagine

865
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,679
genuinely alien aliens and they never

866
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:31,840
figure them out they're silicone-based

867
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:34,000
and the one alien is telling the humans

868
00:29:36,870 --> 00:29:35,679
and he says he's looks at the humans he

869
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:36,880
says two plus two equals four and he

870
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:38,240
looks at himself and says he's a bird

871
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:39,600
and he says two plus two equals four and

872
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:41,039
then he points to them he says two plus

873
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:43,440
two equals nine and they never figure

874
00:29:46,549 --> 00:29:44,720
out what's up with these silicon they're

875
00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:46,559
just these little pyramids they travel

876
00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:48,720
across mars they make more pyramids no

877
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,480
one knows why they don't die they don't

878
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:52,640
do anything they just hang out but

879
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:54,799
they're alive they might have a purpose

880
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:56,640
no one knows

881
00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:57,760
i'm going to try to address tony's

882
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,880
question

883
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:59,840
um

884
00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:01,039
i wonder and i think a lot of us

885
00:30:03,909 --> 00:30:02,640
experience this with with all the kind

886
00:30:06,149 --> 00:30:03,919
of like

887
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:06,159
combative information strange data like

888
00:30:09,190 --> 00:30:07,919
deflections and uncertainty and covet

889
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:09,200
like how do we behave what do we do we

890
00:30:13,029 --> 00:30:11,120
want authority etc and i find that quite

891
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:13,039
often this otherness this sort of like

892
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:14,159
um

893
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,919
the unpeaceable element of us that

894
00:30:19,350 --> 00:30:17,440
considers that we might like not get

895
00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:19,360
along with whatever we find is obviously

896
00:30:24,149 --> 00:30:21,440
like a reflection of fear and

897
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:24,159
i think that there comes

898
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:35,750
crystal level when we find aliens so i

899
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:36,880
think one way that you could prepare

900
00:30:39,029 --> 00:30:37,919
your audience and i think it would be

901
00:30:40,870 --> 00:30:39,039
excellent for science and i think it

902
00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:40,880
would be excellent for artists is to

903
00:30:44,149 --> 00:30:42,559
figure out a way to make the general

904
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:44,159
public a little more comfortable with

905
00:30:47,990 --> 00:30:46,559
uncertainty i don't know how to do that

906
00:30:49,190 --> 00:30:48,000
but like i know a lot of people who are

907
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:49,200
trying to work on that i don't know but

908
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,960
eventually like you know i'm not saying

909
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:52,399
we can imagine a formal method for doing

910
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:54,480
so but if we could get used to

911
00:30:57,669 --> 00:30:56,080
comfortably seating in a space of

912
00:30:59,430 --> 00:30:57,679
uncertainty that doesn't demonstrate or

913
00:31:01,830 --> 00:30:59,440
like you know recoil or represent itself

914
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:01,840
in some sort of fearful reaction they're

915
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,000
capable of trying to reconcile such a

916
00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:06,080
discovery or any other type of strange

917
00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:08,320
new change to the world we need to add

918
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:10,559
meditative practices into science right

919
00:31:15,509 --> 00:31:12,960
or or just us separate uncertainty from

920
00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:15,519
precarity right yes in many cases if you

921
00:31:17,990 --> 00:31:16,640
don't know where your next meal is

922
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:18,000
coming from you're going to be uncertain

923
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:19,679
about possibilities for doing something

924
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:21,279
dramatically different from those things

925
00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:23,519
that provide subsistence right and so

926
00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:24,640
that's always going to be an interesting

927
00:31:27,509 --> 00:31:26,240
problem to me yeah and it seems that

928
00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:27,519
like something like invention and

929
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:29,200
innovation is both a consequence of a

930
00:31:33,190 --> 00:31:31,039
limit and the consequence of total like

931
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:33,200
richness so like if you have you know if

932
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:34,720
you have your next meal then you have

933
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:36,240
the space to sort of be creative and

934
00:31:39,909 --> 00:31:38,080
innovative but if you don't that limit

935
00:31:41,509 --> 00:31:39,919
also puts you in a perspective to have

936
00:31:42,950 --> 00:31:41,519
to invent yourself out of that problem

937
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:42,960
yeah i feel like we're edging towards

938
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:45,919
elon musk as a commentary right now i'm

939
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,630
but the root can take us there

940
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,590
that's our next question

941
00:31:59,350 --> 00:31:57,430
i mean in this on this like theme of

942
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:59,360
uncertainty you know i wonder

943
00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:01,200
how we feel comfortable reporting

944
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:03,200
something like the finding of an alien

945
00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:04,880
species across the various audiences

946
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,159
that we you know engage with or

947
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:08,399
represent obviously you know if you get

948
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:10,159
a paper from a scientist or an

949
00:32:13,269 --> 00:32:11,440
astrobiologist that feels like they

950
00:32:15,190 --> 00:32:13,279
found an alien it will come with a lot

951
00:32:16,630 --> 00:32:15,200
of sort of like confidence intervals and

952
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,640
you know i say this is sufficient

953
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:18,720
evidence eighty percent maybe that this

954
00:32:22,710 --> 00:32:20,480
particular thing might be the product of

955
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:22,720
life etc so there's not it's not hedging

956
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:24,559
necessarily but it's an attempt to be as

957
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:26,159
extremely actually

958
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:28,320
but that thing changes as it kind of

959
00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:30,320
mutates through the sort of media chain

960
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,440
and i wonder what y'all think is

961
00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:32,880
effective enough to say there's life in

962
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:34,080
the universe

963
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:36,640
well so honestly we're hedging on our

964
00:32:42,630 --> 00:32:39,840
show all the time and but um at the

965
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:42,640
moment that we feel as

966
00:32:47,190 --> 00:32:45,760
as a show team as a team of experts that

967
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:47,200
we can

968
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:48,399
make a call

969
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:50,159
we do right

970
00:32:54,549 --> 00:32:52,000
but all i can tell you is that the

971
00:32:56,950 --> 00:32:54,559
audience that watches our show and a lot

972
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:56,960
of the content in the space

973
00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:58,480
they're believers

974
00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:02,240
um and and at the moment that that we

975
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:04,880
signal to them or they signal to us

976
00:33:09,669 --> 00:33:07,600
right it's likely to come the other way

977
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:09,679
um that they've got a high degree of

978
00:33:13,669 --> 00:33:11,679
confidence in in

979
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:13,679
in their belief that what they're seeing

980
00:33:18,149 --> 00:33:16,080
is the other is the alien

981
00:33:21,269 --> 00:33:18,159
uh our audience

982
00:33:23,190 --> 00:33:21,279
um is going to drive this for us

983
00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:23,200
and they're gonna push us

984
00:33:27,509 --> 00:33:26,240
um and we name the show the proof is out

985
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,519
there for a reason

986
00:33:30,470 --> 00:33:29,519
and so it seems like your criterion is a

987
00:33:33,029 --> 00:33:30,480
sort of

988
00:33:35,509 --> 00:33:33,039
demonstrable element of the faith of

989
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,519
this audience but but what i but

990
00:33:39,830 --> 00:33:37,760
we're going to and i'm going to push for

991
00:33:42,389 --> 00:33:39,840
this and and i don't have to push hard

992
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:42,399
for this but i'm going to to push for as

993
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:44,960
we do with oliver

994
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:46,559
our discussions about the the videos

995
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:48,240
that we get is that we

996
00:33:53,350 --> 00:33:50,720
we want science

997
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:53,360
to weigh in on this

998
00:33:57,350 --> 00:33:56,080
we've got two yeah yeah and and that's

999
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:57,360
part of the reason why i'm happy to be

1000
00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:59,120
here because i won't i want to engage

1001
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:00,799
this community more than we have to this

1002
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,559
point even i mean we've got scientists

1003
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:04,159
on the show but i i want to know what

1004
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:06,720
this room feels and what it thinks

1005
00:34:12,389 --> 00:34:09,839
about how we tell these stories um you

1006
00:34:14,470 --> 00:34:12,399
know when a half hour show that's 23

1007
00:34:16,230 --> 00:34:14,480
minutes with seven minutes of amazon

1008
00:34:17,990 --> 00:34:16,240
commercials and so andre what about

1009
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:18,000
cyber culture how do we like how does

1010
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:19,919
the cyber version of our lives kind of

1011
00:34:26,069 --> 00:34:23,440
it affect the way that this

1012
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:26,079
information gets disseminated and

1013
00:34:29,829 --> 00:34:27,919
absorbed and transformed

1014
00:34:32,310 --> 00:34:29,839
so one of the arguments i made about a

1015
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:32,320
decade ago was that twitter in

1016
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:34,079
particular but the internet provides a

1017
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:37,040
space for ritual catharsis right

1018
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:38,560
and i said that about twitter because

1019
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:54,230
or listen to one another encourage the

1020
00:34:58,630 --> 00:34:57,040
the publication the authoring of things

1021
00:35:00,470 --> 00:34:58,640
that were guaranteed to get engagement

1022
00:35:02,150 --> 00:35:00,480
we see the worst effects of that now

1023
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,160
right uh in part because the companies

1024
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:04,240
refuse to engage in content moderation

1025
00:35:07,910 --> 00:35:06,560
that's kind of way out the way right um

1026
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:07,920
the thing i do want to say though is

1027
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:09,119
that for

1028
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:11,200
cyberspace we're constantly asked by

1029
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:13,200
marketers to reimagine ourselves not

1030
00:35:17,670 --> 00:35:15,359
even aliens right to reimagine ourselves

1031
00:35:20,310 --> 00:35:17,680
as avatars of productivity of avatars of

1032
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:20,320
a certain beauty standard right uh

1033
00:35:23,670 --> 00:35:21,760
conversation before we get really

1034
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:23,680
attained right because we're always

1035
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:25,359
pushing that chase right and so to me

1036
00:35:29,510 --> 00:35:27,520
it's it's an interesting question right

1037
00:35:31,589 --> 00:35:29,520
because i would argue that we in many

1038
00:35:33,750 --> 00:35:31,599
ways we have alien cultures here on

1039
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:33,760
earth that have yet to be interrogated

1040
00:35:39,190 --> 00:35:36,640
or understood right or if they are

1041
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:39,200
approached and they are set up in such a

1042
00:35:42,950 --> 00:35:41,119
way that they will forever be alien to

1043
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:42,960
us and i'm thinking specifically of our

1044
00:35:47,829 --> 00:35:45,680
last 20 so 20 or so years since 9 11 and

1045
00:35:49,990 --> 00:35:47,839
the way that islam has been re

1046
00:35:51,349 --> 00:35:50,000
reconstructed as this completely foreign

1047
00:35:54,069 --> 00:35:51,359
faith even though it's part of the

1048
00:35:55,990 --> 00:35:54,079
judeo-christian tradition right uh and

1049
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:56,000
so we've done lots of things to make

1050
00:35:59,990 --> 00:35:58,079
those folks seem inscrutable and

1051
00:36:02,230 --> 00:36:00,000
uncommunicative and incommensurable

1052
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:02,240
right and so yeah the internet what the

1053
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,920
internet does offer because i don't want

1054
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:05,280
to just talk about the positives though

1055
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:07,520
the internet does offer possibilities

1056
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:09,359
connect across space and time

1057
00:36:12,870 --> 00:36:11,280
super valuable right in part because

1058
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:12,880
it's really expensive to buy a home now

1059
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:14,000
and so you're not necessarily going to

1060
00:36:17,829 --> 00:36:15,520
be moving like you used to move and then

1061
00:36:20,150 --> 00:36:17,839
like 20 or 30 10 years ago in atlanta

1062
00:36:21,510 --> 00:36:20,160
right as quickly as possible but now you

1063
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:21,520
have this way where you can keep up with

1064
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:24,320
people or block people right that you no

1065
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,240
longer want to talk to right and i think

1066
00:36:29,910 --> 00:36:28,320
that possibility for communication says

1067
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:29,920
a lot about how we would understand

1068
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:31,839
ourselves given

1069
00:36:35,589 --> 00:36:34,079
a lack of uncertainty on how how well we

1070
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:35,599
can communicate with one another right

1071
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:37,280
i'm constantly struck by the inventive

1072
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:39,680
ways that teenagers and minority groups

1073
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:42,079
come up to transform the really dry

1074
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:43,680
communication of that the internet

1075
00:36:47,589 --> 00:36:45,440
offers right so i don't know how many of

1076
00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:47,599
you used bitmoji you look like a bitmoji

1077
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,560
kind of audience right or emoji right or

1078
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:52,240
even um

1079
00:36:57,030 --> 00:36:54,960
different gestures uh uh because i come

1080
00:36:58,870 --> 00:36:57,040
from computer media computer mediated

1081
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:58,880
communication one of the early findings

1082
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:00,800
in the late 90s was that women use more

1083
00:37:05,589 --> 00:37:03,440
punctuation than men do

1084
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:05,599
and so i argue that we already do things

1085
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:07,599
to situate ourselves to make ourselves

1086
00:37:11,510 --> 00:37:09,839
visible to other groups that may perhaps

1087
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:11,520
perceive us as alien but we do those

1088
00:37:14,390 --> 00:37:13,200
more so because they make us feel good

1089
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:14,400
about ourselves does that make sense and

1090
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:16,160
so the internet is one of those spaces i

1091
00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:17,760
think that serves as a vehicle for

1092
00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,400
reaffirming humanity and really good and

1093
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:22,560
bad ways so that's really too much for

1094
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:24,320
the answer no no i think that's quite

1095
00:37:26,470 --> 00:37:25,280
right

1096
00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:26,480
and then what about like the way that

1097
00:37:30,470 --> 00:37:28,720
art helps us reconcile with these things

1098
00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:30,480
the way that art helps us reconcile

1099
00:37:34,390 --> 00:37:32,160
these things

1100
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:34,400
oh yeah well right i mean

1101
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:36,240
certainly science fiction can dramatize

1102
00:37:39,750 --> 00:37:37,760
that although there's a ten there's that

1103
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:39,760
tension in science fiction because

1104
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:41,280
science fiction is

1105
00:37:45,270 --> 00:37:43,119
it's grounded in a sort of completest

1106
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:45,280
and realist narrative like the idea is

1107
00:37:49,030 --> 00:37:47,119
that you go into the story and you're

1108
00:37:50,630 --> 00:37:49,040
estranged from things right you you in

1109
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:50,640
the best story you're the first sentence

1110
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:52,079
grabs you and you have no idea where you

1111
00:37:56,790 --> 00:37:55,280
are uh the door de la quest

1112
00:37:58,150 --> 00:37:56,800
you know it's like i know what that is i

1113
00:38:01,430 --> 00:37:58,160
know what the door is i have no idea

1114
00:38:03,829 --> 00:38:01,440
what delaques means and you know um

1115
00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:03,839
but science fiction wants to alleviate

1116
00:38:06,470 --> 00:38:05,440
your estrangement right to return you to

1117
00:38:08,790 --> 00:38:06,480
cognition and give you a full

1118
00:38:10,390 --> 00:38:08,800
explanation and so in some ways i think

1119
00:38:11,589 --> 00:38:10,400
that this is potentially a limit

1120
00:38:13,589 --> 00:38:11,599
especially of science fiction and it's

1121
00:38:15,430 --> 00:38:13,599
more classic formulations is it's always

1122
00:38:16,870 --> 00:38:15,440
about the drive to know everything and

1123
00:38:18,550 --> 00:38:16,880
to understand everything it's this or

1124
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,560
the in the way that sort of classic

1125
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:20,160
formulations of science were about sort

1126
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:34,470
between knowledge

1127
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:36,230
and especially if you're going to the

1128
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:39,040
movies and you've paid 25 and all you

1129
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:41,440
want is to be entertained right

1130
00:38:44,790 --> 00:38:42,560
i mean

1131
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:44,800
yeah there's a reason that people hated

1132
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,960
the end like the third matrix movie

1133
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,960
right because it didn't let you complete

1134
00:38:52,230 --> 00:38:50,560
the i love it too because it doesn't

1135
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,240
complete the narrative like it doesn't

1136
00:38:56,790 --> 00:38:54,880
send neo back out to be superman um and

1137
00:38:58,790 --> 00:38:56,800
that's what's so awesome about it right

1138
00:39:01,270 --> 00:38:58,800
but it's hard and i think that movies

1139
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:01,280
that do that um and and art in general

1140
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:03,200
that does that is often seen as

1141
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:05,599
difficult or challenging or not fun or

1142
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:06,960
lame or

1143
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:08,240
yeah go look at every review of the

1144
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:09,359
matrix three and you'll see what i'm

1145
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:11,280
talking about here

1146
00:39:14,950 --> 00:39:12,800
well four actually ends things in its

1147
00:39:16,150 --> 00:39:14,960
own way although never mind that's a

1148
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:16,160
whole paper my grad student's writing

1149
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:17,680
you don't need it

1150
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:18,960
so i mean i think that we could continue

1151
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:21,359
on i i just had to check basically

1152
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:22,320
the audience there are probably

1153
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:23,440
questions out there and questions for

1154
00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:26,000
any of our streamers um i'm happy to go

1155
00:39:29,910 --> 00:39:27,520
a little over but yes if anyone has a

1156
00:39:31,829 --> 00:39:29,920
question about this theme or an idea yes

1157
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:31,839
sir

1158
00:39:35,510 --> 00:39:34,240
very anti-scientific reaction to

1159
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:35,520
vaccination

1160
00:39:40,230 --> 00:39:37,920
the politician of it

1161
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:40,240
are you pessimistic optimistic let's say

1162
00:39:46,630 --> 00:39:44,240
five ten years from now europa uh titan

1163
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:46,640
enceladus something comes back

1164
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:48,000
what kind of reaction i guess that's

1165
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:49,040
what i was in part what i was coming

1166
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:51,040
here for if i may i'd like to start at

1167
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:52,079
least an answer to that first of all

1168
00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:53,839
those are my top three destinations so

1169
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:55,760
that's excellent um but i do want to say

1170
00:39:58,310 --> 00:39:57,119
and again i'm like a glass-half-full

1171
00:40:00,710 --> 00:39:58,320
person i actually think that there's

1172
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:00,720
been a real boon to science trust as a

1173
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:02,720
result of covet i think that we see a

1174
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:04,400
sort of

1175
00:40:07,670 --> 00:40:06,480
minority expression very intensely when

1176
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:07,680
organized and again this goes back to

1177
00:40:12,230 --> 00:40:09,680
the way that we sort of collect um but i

1178
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:12,240
actually so this is the problem um if we

1179
00:40:15,910 --> 00:40:14,480
and uh if i'm right that i think there

1180
00:40:17,109 --> 00:40:15,920
is maybe more faith in science these

1181
00:40:18,550 --> 00:40:17,119
days given the development of these

1182
00:40:21,190 --> 00:40:18,560
vaccines and their affection or their

1183
00:40:22,470 --> 00:40:21,200
their efficacy um i still think that

1184
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:22,480
it's going to be hard to convince a

1185
00:40:26,630 --> 00:40:24,960
global lay audience that this crystal

1186
00:40:28,150 --> 00:40:26,640
thing that behaves in this way is life

1187
00:40:29,589 --> 00:40:28,160
enough to count

1188
00:40:31,030 --> 00:40:29,599
so i'm not sure i'm excited for the

1189
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:31,040
science community and i'm excited for

1190
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:32,880
the science interested like the kids who

1191
00:40:36,309 --> 00:40:34,400
will see this and then throw themselves

1192
00:40:37,990 --> 00:40:36,319
into astrobiology in the same way that i

1193
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:38,000
threw myself into biology when we cloned

1194
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:39,599
a sheep like i don't know what the

1195
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:43,040
alternative is but um i'm optimistic for

1196
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:44,720
the science interested but i still think

1197
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:47,760
it's a huge gap to jump for those who

1198
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:49,040
aren't initiated in the sciences and

1199
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:50,720
it's a very hard initiation i don't know

1200
00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:55,589
one of the things the internet did was

1201
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:58,160
create a culture of experts who were

1202
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:59,680
emboldened by

1203
00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:01,200
and i would totally lay this at the feet

1204
00:41:05,109 --> 00:41:02,960
of the bush administration that we were

1205
00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:05,119
post-truth right and so one of the

1206
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:07,040
difficulties i saw for

1207
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:09,359
um vaccine hesitancy i don't want to

1208
00:41:14,630 --> 00:41:12,240
necessarily call it uh uh anything worse

1209
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,640
than that right was that in many ways we

1210
00:41:18,069 --> 00:41:16,480
had worked so hard to convince people

1211
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,079
that the tools we have are either

1212
00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:20,640
inscrutable or used in the means of of

1213
00:41:24,069 --> 00:41:22,720
taking away resources from people and so

1214
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:24,079
people don't necessarily want to believe

1215
00:41:28,069 --> 00:41:26,400
in them so like my wife is a nurse right

1216
00:41:29,750 --> 00:41:28,079
she's got nine or ten years experience

1217
00:41:31,990 --> 00:41:29,760
on the job she refused to take the

1218
00:41:34,150 --> 00:41:32,000
vaccine right and i'm like well you're a

1219
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:34,160
nurse at assisted living you're not an

1220
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:35,760
epidemiologist and so i got kicked out

1221
00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:37,280
the house for a couple of days right and

1222
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:39,040
then when she let me back in she

1223
00:41:43,430 --> 00:41:40,880
explained that she just felt the science

1224
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:43,440
was not it had moved too quickly right

1225
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:45,680
and i pointed out to her that this is

1226
00:41:48,470 --> 00:41:46,880
something that had been worked on for

1227
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:48,480
actually 30 years the woman who came up

1228
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:51,359
with it was deeply uh rejected by the

1229
00:41:54,950 --> 00:41:53,280
scientific establishment right until

1230
00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:54,960
finally recently that's been proven to

1231
00:41:58,390 --> 00:41:56,720
do some work and that did not convince

1232
00:41:59,910 --> 00:41:58,400
her so i think in some ways the internet

1233
00:42:01,990 --> 00:41:59,920
plays into this but there's also a

1234
00:42:04,630 --> 00:42:02,000
larger american tendency i think for

1235
00:42:07,589 --> 00:42:04,640
anti-intellectualism and doubt right

1236
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:07,599
about about authority right i would call

1237
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:09,599
it the illuminati strain

1238
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:11,200
perhaps

1239
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,160
uh

1240
00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:14,400
sonic you know henry ross has no respect

1241
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:16,079
there's a cultural history of this

1242
00:42:19,109 --> 00:42:17,520
really worth looking at it's a cultural

1243
00:42:21,630 --> 00:42:19,119
history of anti-intellectualism in

1244
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:21,640
america andrew ross no respect

1245
00:42:26,550 --> 00:42:24,400
anti-intellectualism in america

1246
00:42:28,230 --> 00:42:26,560
um and so this answer's gone

1247
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:28,240
far too long but i would just so this is

1248
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:29,520
something that i wanted to say when we

1249
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:30,960
were talking earlier i think the

1250
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:32,640
inscrutability of the tools that

1251
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:36,160
scientists use has led people to doubt

1252
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:46,550
uh

1253
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:49,200
islam and science fiction and afro and

1254
00:42:52,069 --> 00:42:50,800
astrobiology because apparently islam

1255
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:52,079
was one of the first cultures to start

1256
00:42:54,710 --> 00:42:53,839
thinking through astrobiology right

1257
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:54,720
which is not something you'll

1258
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:57,410
necessarily hear on

1259
00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:00,640
[Laughter]

1260
00:43:03,349 --> 00:43:01,920
right

1261
00:43:05,030 --> 00:43:03,359
thinking through other cultures and

1262
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:05,040
their engagement with what they saw as

1263
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:07,280
the heavens or the possibilities for

1264
00:43:10,390 --> 00:43:08,640
living out there i think gave us

1265
00:43:12,150 --> 00:43:10,400
something that science has taken from us

1266
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,160
right sciences promises certainty but

1267
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:14,400
the scientists always say 90 confidence

1268
00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:16,640
interval right and it's a term of art

1269
00:43:19,430 --> 00:43:17,920
right but yeah it's also

1270
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:19,440
counterintuitive and i think honestly

1271
00:43:22,470 --> 00:43:21,359
and i'm like i am i mean i represent a

1272
00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:22,480
science institute i'm not going to talk

1273
00:43:25,910 --> 00:43:24,400
poorly about science i love it um but i

1274
00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,920
think that the attempt to express the

1275
00:43:29,349 --> 00:43:27,359
uncertainty of eliminating that black

1276
00:43:30,550 --> 00:43:29,359
boxiness but unfortunately it's like i

1277
00:43:32,390 --> 00:43:30,560
think that there's this trade-off where

1278
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:32,400
people want authority but they also want

1279
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:33,359
to know what's happening within the

1280
00:43:36,630 --> 00:43:34,880
black box and if we lift the black box

1281
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:36,640
up and say well to 80 confidence we

1282
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:38,240
think this thing will work well if it's

1283
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:40,160
not 100 then it's at some point

1284
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:41,760
unreliable and you have to make yourself

1285
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:43,040
so it's like i don't know i don't know

1286
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:45,040
what to do but it's like it's you know

1287
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:46,720
an effort towards transparency i think

1288
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:48,560
would go a long way and at this point

1289
00:43:51,349 --> 00:43:50,079
transparency for that uncertainty might

1290
00:43:52,470 --> 00:43:51,359
be the solution that i'd propose but i

1291
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:52,480
don't know we could send you out a

1292
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,160
technical communication training all

1293
00:44:03,750 --> 00:43:58,230
what questions what questions yes more

1294
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,710
all right

1295
00:44:08,150 --> 00:44:06,640
any thoughts on the likelihood could we

1296
00:44:11,990 --> 00:44:08,160
can we get like a poll do we think that

1297
00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:13,430
i think just let's start with aliens and

1298
00:44:17,510 --> 00:44:15,520
let's let's go from there so just aliens

1299
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:17,520
dumb or not

1300
00:44:24,230 --> 00:44:21,040
all right good majority that way

1301
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:24,240
well i think the james webb telescope

1302
00:44:26,309 --> 00:44:25,040
may

1303
00:44:28,309 --> 00:44:26,319
find uh

1304
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:28,319
strong indications of

1305
00:44:32,870 --> 00:44:31,440
life on exoplanets

1306
00:44:35,109 --> 00:44:32,880
oh and i want to say i'm sorry maybe i

1307
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:35,119
am too talking too much

1308
00:44:40,470 --> 00:44:37,760
um so uh frank drake who works at seti

1309
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:40,480
he proposed in the 60s that uh you know

1310
00:44:43,990 --> 00:44:41,920
this frank equation that sort of allowed

1311
00:44:46,230 --> 00:44:44,000
you to formally calculate how many

1312
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:46,240
intelligent communicative technological

1313
00:44:50,230 --> 00:44:48,000
alien civilizations there are of course

1314
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:50,240
at the time that seemed really crazy and

1315
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:53,119
one of the components in that in that uh

1316
00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:55,040
equation is the number of exoplanets and

1317
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:56,880
at the time that he proposed it there

1318
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:58,640
as of today there are over 5000 because

1319
00:45:01,589 --> 00:45:00,319
our technology allows us to see things

1320
00:45:03,430 --> 00:45:01,599
that we couldn't imagine were possible

1321
00:45:04,710 --> 00:45:03,440
before and so you know i think the james

1322
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:04,720
webb is an excellent example if we just

1323
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:05,920
kind of broaden our perspective and

1324
00:45:09,990 --> 00:45:07,920
recognize that we might we life might be

1325
00:45:11,349 --> 00:45:10,000
inventive enough to finally develop the

1326
00:45:12,550 --> 00:45:11,359
technology that allows us to find it

1327
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:12,560
like we just have to be open-minded to

1328
00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:13,920
the fact that these possibilities are in

1329
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:16,000
fact possible and so i like that it's

1330
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:18,079
like everyone laughed at frank drake but

1331
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:20,079
now we're literally like doing we're

1332
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,599
sending missions out to these exoplanets

1333
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:23,599
with hope it's a faith i'd like to ask

1334
00:45:26,710 --> 00:45:25,040
the science skeptics why they don't

1335
00:45:28,470 --> 00:45:26,720
think right so we had a ton of fans that

1336
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:28,480
said they do but for those of you who

1337
00:45:32,150 --> 00:45:30,240
don't think we'll find alien life why is

1338
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:32,160
that

1339
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:38,230
this is one hypothesis this is not a

1340
00:45:42,710 --> 00:45:40,960
definition but it seems to me that um

1341
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:42,720
again i said it's like life makes art

1342
00:45:47,990 --> 00:45:44,720
that's like silly but i think um

1343
00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:48,000
alien life might be um a system capable

1344
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:50,160
of creating or

1345
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:51,839
creating sufficiently complex systems

1346
00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:54,240
that couldn't come to fruition randomly

1347
00:45:59,349 --> 00:45:55,359
users

1348
00:46:02,309 --> 00:45:59,359
memory havers and exploiters i got a

1349
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:02,319
hard no players in 20 years

1350
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:04,079
20 years

1351
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:08,240
but i think bacterial single cell life

1352
00:46:11,510 --> 00:46:09,680
oh but to be fair i'm not even talking

1353
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:11,520
at the complex level of a bacterial cell

1354
00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:12,560
i'm saying like maybe even some

1355
00:46:16,150 --> 00:46:14,480
primordial dna

1356
00:46:17,349 --> 00:46:16,160
so my alien is even simpler than yours

1357
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:17,359
do you agree that that might be found in

1358
00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:20,400
the next 20 years dna that makes tools

1359
00:46:28,230 --> 00:46:27,030
again

1360
00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:28,240
will there be global consensus

1361
00:46:31,589 --> 00:46:29,599
absolutely not and this is what's so

1362
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:31,599
fascinating like how do we i don't know

1363
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:35,520
continue to engage other skeptics

1364
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:37,599
others who believe

1365
00:46:46,870 --> 00:46:45,990
how agnostic do you want to go

1366
00:46:49,750 --> 00:46:46,880
um

1367
00:46:51,910 --> 00:46:49,760
i heard you came and say about uh

1368
00:46:54,390 --> 00:46:51,920
doing interesting things with stuff but

1369
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:54,400
i also heard in this panel uh

1370
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:56,480
physiological changes

1371
00:47:00,230 --> 00:46:58,079
uh how about

1372
00:47:01,510 --> 00:47:00,240
mental changes how about idealism as a

1373
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:01,520
metaphysics

1374
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:02,640
so like a

1375
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:05,359
sort of immaterial emerging phenomenon

1376
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:07,200
something like that something like that

1377
00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:08,880
i wonder just for my part and this is

1378
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,240
just an opinion it seems to me that

1379
00:47:13,829 --> 00:47:12,000
something like that wouldn't necessarily

1380
00:47:15,030 --> 00:47:13,839
require a material foundation and i

1381
00:47:17,190 --> 00:47:15,040
think that that material foundation

1382
00:47:19,430 --> 00:47:17,200
might be something like a a pre about to

1383
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:19,440
be lifeness

1384
00:47:22,870 --> 00:47:21,520
so but i think that that might act we

1385
00:47:24,069 --> 00:47:22,880
could call it like an idiosignature or

1386
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:24,079
something but i think that this sort of

1387
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:26,480
like phenomenon is something that we

1388
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:27,839
should be considering if there's a

1389
00:47:31,829 --> 00:47:29,599
possibility for us to formalize a way to

1390
00:47:32,870 --> 00:47:31,839
look for it um because you know as we

1391
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:32,880
said it's like every time we think of

1392
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:34,880
life we accidentally imbue consciousness

1393
00:47:38,549 --> 00:47:37,200
or agency or something like that and so

1394
00:47:42,150 --> 00:47:38,559
i wonder if

1395
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:42,160
as a bio signature elsewhere and then

1396
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:44,000
kind of like get even lower down and see

1397
00:47:47,829 --> 00:47:45,680
what it might be emerging from if it is

1398
00:47:50,069 --> 00:47:47,839
in fact emergent i might be wrong right

1399
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:50,079
i i meant i do mean something like

1400
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:52,000
convergence because it might not be

1401
00:47:56,630 --> 00:47:54,160
emergence at all there's a

1402
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:56,640
lively debate in consciousness studies

1403
00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:57,760
about

1404
00:48:01,670 --> 00:47:59,280
idealism versus

1405
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:01,680
materialism

1406
00:48:03,990 --> 00:48:02,640
will you point me to some of that

1407
00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,000
literature i'd be curious to read it

1408
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:06,400
sure thank you

1409
00:48:19,670 --> 00:48:17,270
well here's here's the

1410
00:48:20,950 --> 00:48:19,680
i've said to this panel

1411
00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:20,960
one of the things that i'd like to do

1412
00:48:26,309 --> 00:48:24,000
with the show is as we evolve is i and i

1413
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:26,319
want to

1414
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:31,200
the spiritual

1415
00:48:34,790 --> 00:48:33,520
realm the faith

1416
00:48:36,150 --> 00:48:34,800
realm

1417
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:36,160
and how it

1418
00:48:41,030 --> 00:48:38,559
impacts

1419
00:48:42,309 --> 00:48:41,040
how we talk about everything that we've

1420
00:48:43,829 --> 00:48:42,319
talked about

1421
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:43,839
this evening

1422
00:48:49,430 --> 00:48:45,680
um

1423
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:49,440
because i i know that that is going to

1424
00:48:59,510 --> 00:48:56,069
as our show evolves and and the way

1425
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,520
people look at uh what may or may not be

1426
00:49:03,910 --> 00:49:01,440
proof

1427
00:49:06,230 --> 00:49:03,920
you guys first

1428
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:06,240
and then the panel

1429
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:11,829
myself

1430
00:49:17,190 --> 00:49:14,720
and so i'm like okay it's all wide open

1431
00:49:18,790 --> 00:49:17,200
there's life here wherever there's water

1432
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:18,800
there could be life it could be life on

1433
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:21,200
europa no matter what it is

1434
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:23,280
uh but my mother was a devout christian

1435
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:24,960
but even she believed that there could

1436
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:26,640
be alien life because there's a passage

1437
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:29,200
in the bible says other sheep

1438
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:31,599
well if god created us

1439
00:49:36,069 --> 00:49:33,520
how do you know he didn't create stuff

1440
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:36,079
here there wherever which i don't

1441
00:49:39,910 --> 00:49:37,520
believe in god but that was her

1442
00:49:42,230 --> 00:49:39,920
viewpoint

1443
00:49:43,270 --> 00:49:42,240
see i love this

1444
00:49:45,270 --> 00:49:43,280
yes

1445
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,280
i think unfortunately for the show

1446
00:49:48,950 --> 00:49:47,040
itself it's fighting a losing battle

1447
00:49:50,790 --> 00:49:48,960
right she said it herself we wouldn't

1448
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:50,800
know alien life unless it came up and

1449
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:52,400
shot us out of mars attacks and i

1450
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:54,160
actually believe that's true and i

1451
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:57,359
believe i 100 agree with caitlyn that

1452
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:59,119
when we find it

1453
00:50:01,910 --> 00:50:00,480
she didn't say this but i will it's

1454
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,920
going to be a non-event because it's

1455
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:03,280
going to be something that doesn't look

1456
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:04,720
like us it's going to be

1457
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:06,800
dna or whatever it's going to be and

1458
00:50:11,030 --> 00:50:09,119
most of the people probably won't take

1459
00:50:14,309 --> 00:50:11,040
in his life or care about life

1460
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:14,319
and if you bring in faith that's i mean

1461
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:15,680
you're gonna have to follow whatever

1462
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:17,440
your audience wants right because that's

1463
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:19,200
the business that you're in

1464
00:50:22,309 --> 00:50:20,160
and

1465
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:22,319
the the rub though is that they're never

1466
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:24,480
gonna find the spaceship because it's

1467
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:40,790
and i think that while there is

1468
00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:42,640
intelligent life out there we'll

1469
00:50:47,270 --> 00:50:45,200
probably never know because they'll die

1470
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:47,280
we'll die we're too far away from each

1471
00:50:51,750 --> 00:50:49,040
other and those bubbles will simply

1472
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:51,760
never collide

1473
00:51:02,790 --> 00:51:00,790
you could have had hundreds of

1474
00:51:05,430 --> 00:51:02,800
civilizations evolve and die over the

1475
00:51:08,630 --> 00:51:05,440
course of time yeah and we're here for

1476
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:08,640
a blip those will travel but they may be

1477
00:51:12,549 --> 00:51:10,720
passed by the time that they're evolved

1478
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:12,559
and you know who knows and just the

1479
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:18,790
i'm sorry sorry i was gonna say even if

1480
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:21,440
they are contemporaries

1481
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:23,520
do they want to be heard i mean that's

1482
00:51:26,150 --> 00:51:24,720
an argument that's another argument

1483
00:51:27,670 --> 00:51:26,160
that's an argument going on in science

1484
00:51:29,109 --> 00:51:27,680
today where you know we've sent these

1485
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:29,119
messages out now we're starting to

1486
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:31,359
question whether we should have yeah

1487
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:35,910
see clark made that point all the way

1488
00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:39,359
back in 2001 right so yeah or in the uh

1489
00:51:42,470 --> 00:51:40,960
the sentinel actually the even earlier

1490
00:51:45,109 --> 00:51:42,480
story that we had basically doxed

1491
00:51:47,109 --> 00:51:45,119
ourselves by doing that

1492
00:51:48,069 --> 00:51:47,119
well what is the what is the thing that

1493
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:48,079
i read

1494
00:51:51,670 --> 00:51:50,000
last week a week before that nasa is

1495
00:51:53,990 --> 00:51:51,680
sending out

1496
00:51:55,190 --> 00:51:54,000
new pictures or something or oh yeah am

1497
00:51:56,549 --> 00:51:55,200
i the only one who read that no that's

1498
00:51:57,829 --> 00:51:56,559
that's that's from the 70s this is the

1499
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:57,839
voyager vision it's the voyager this

1500
00:52:02,069 --> 00:51:59,520
isn't the player the joke i guess is

1501
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:02,079
that like we would send out nudes in our

1502
00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:08,630
well first of all it was the 70s and

1503
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:10,240
they had just lifted all the porn codes

1504
00:52:13,589 --> 00:52:11,920
right right oh that doesn't exist but

1505
00:52:15,510 --> 00:52:13,599
what's funny especially in this day and

1506
00:52:17,190 --> 00:52:15,520
age right is that we send them a picture

1507
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:17,200
of a man and a woman as if we expect

1508
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:20,559
them to be to understand what that means

1509
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:22,559
yeah it doesn't even really exactly

1510
00:52:26,390 --> 00:52:24,160
entirely map to the way we're

1511
00:52:28,870 --> 00:52:26,400
increasingly thinking about humanity so

1512
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:28,880
first of all it's right an artifact of

1513
00:52:32,470 --> 00:52:30,800
and that's fine because it was

1514
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:32,480
but it is funny that even then we would

1515
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:34,319
have just assumed well of course they'll

1516
00:52:38,309 --> 00:52:36,800
need to know that that we have two sexes

1517
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:38,319
or whatever like why

1518
00:52:41,670 --> 00:52:39,920
why because it is possible that other

1519
00:52:43,349 --> 00:52:41,680
life might be trisexual it might take

1520
00:52:45,910 --> 00:52:43,359
three genetic strands to make a child it

1521
00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:45,920
might be like a family kind of situation

1522
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,359
right right right but i'm not sure that

1523
00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:49,200
them seeing r2 like i i don't know what

1524
00:52:53,190 --> 00:52:50,480
information that would necessarily

1525
00:52:54,549 --> 00:52:53,200
impart to a truly alien race quite quite

1526
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:54,559
honestly i think it's total vanity i

1527
00:52:57,270 --> 00:52:55,680
think it's like there's all this

1528
00:52:58,069 --> 00:52:57,280
diversity on our planet but like these

1529
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:58,079
are the things that you should be

1530
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:59,280
looking for and these are sort of like

1531
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:01,200
the 70s model of what those things

1532
00:53:03,990 --> 00:53:02,319
should be so it was a little

1533
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:04,000
short-sighted and of course by the time

1534
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:05,280
they catch up to the aliens that might

1535
00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:06,960
be out there who knows if our sun has

1536
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:09,760
exploded yes sir

1537
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:23,190
definitely will have i think there will

1538
00:53:26,549 --> 00:53:24,800
be a lot of negativity that'll go on

1539
00:53:28,390 --> 00:53:26,559
there but spirituality i don't think

1540
00:53:30,230 --> 00:53:28,400
there will be much of an impact

1541
00:53:32,549 --> 00:53:30,240
yeah i know in our show it's it's it's

1542
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:32,559
interesting because we we we get a lot

1543
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:36,240
of submissions about uh the weeping mary

1544
00:53:41,670 --> 00:53:36,880
and

1545
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:41,680
cloud formations that speak to people

1546
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,480
and

1547
00:53:46,309 --> 00:53:44,400
i mean that's speaking to their belief

1548
00:53:48,390 --> 00:53:46,319
system and faith and spirituality

1549
00:53:51,349 --> 00:53:48,400
whatever it is right

1550
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:51,359
and i i find that that that material

1551
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,119
kind of speaks to me if you're asking me

1552
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:55,200
what connects with me

1553
00:53:59,910 --> 00:53:56,640
um

1554
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:59,920
you know and that material kind of does

1555
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:00,880
i

1556
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:03,599
um

1557
00:54:07,589 --> 00:54:05,359
what's realistic and theoretical in

1558
00:54:09,190 --> 00:54:07,599
these conversations

1559
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:09,200
but again i'm a kid from baltimore a lot

1560
00:54:12,549 --> 00:54:11,200
of this stuff is flying over way over my

1561
00:54:14,790 --> 00:54:12,559
head right

1562
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:14,800
but what but but what i but what i do

1563
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:16,720
want to understand better

1564
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:18,720
is how i can connect

1565
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:19,680
you know

1566
00:54:24,870 --> 00:54:22,640
um particularly people i'll be honest

1567
00:54:26,230 --> 00:54:24,880
about it people of color

1568
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:26,240
who

1569
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:30,870
for much of my life have not been

1570
00:54:34,390 --> 00:54:32,640
connected to this world in the space in

1571
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,400
these conversations

1572
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:36,240
i mean it's it's amazing to have both of

1573
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:39,920
us here um today talking about this it's

1574
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:42,319
it's wild and crazy and kooky that i'm

1575
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:44,079
hosting a show

1576
00:54:48,630 --> 00:54:46,400
that's that's talking about these issues

1577
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:48,640
and and and i'm learning from you guys

1578
00:54:54,309 --> 00:54:50,400
i'm learning from this panel and and i'm

1579
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:54,319
happy to call uh lisa a friend um

1580
00:54:57,910 --> 00:54:56,079
who's helping me understand this better

1581
00:55:00,630 --> 00:54:57,920
so that i can

1582
00:55:02,309 --> 00:55:00,640
hopefully bring more people who look

1583
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:02,319
like me into the space to have these

1584
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:03,920
conversations

1585
00:55:08,309 --> 00:55:05,280
um

1586
00:55:09,750 --> 00:55:08,319
so this has been wonderful for me

1587
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:09,760
what are these shoes that you're wearing

1588
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:16,230
so i'm putting those on the stream thank

1589
00:55:19,829 --> 00:55:18,079
all of you for contributing to what i

1590
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:19,839
really really i think so unless that's

1591
00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:21,440
another question i don't want to like

1592
00:55:23,589 --> 00:55:22,799
cut anyone off yeah okay we have one

1593
00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:23,599
more

1594
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:25,599
quick question um sorry amazing paddle

1595
00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:27,440
um so i'm a probiotic chemist so i do

1596
00:55:30,710 --> 00:55:29,520
the origin of life side of astrobiology

1597
00:55:32,789 --> 00:55:30,720
and um

1598
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:32,799
i'm from australia as well in australia

1599
00:55:37,670 --> 00:55:34,799
maybe academia's a bit more conservative

1600
00:55:38,870 --> 00:55:37,680
where if i wanted to go on a show like

1601
00:55:41,190 --> 00:55:38,880
your show if i wanted to write an

1602
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:41,200
article about not even like you know

1603
00:55:45,430 --> 00:55:43,680
exploring what's the size behind a ufo

1604
00:55:47,829 --> 00:55:45,440
you know like how could a ufo get here

1605
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:47,839
or how would life fall on another planet

1606
00:55:51,990 --> 00:55:50,079
my supervisor would really recommend me

1607
00:55:54,230 --> 00:55:52,000
not to do it i'll be shot down i'd be

1608
00:55:55,349 --> 00:55:54,240
hard for me to get a job in academia

1609
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:55,359
i'm just wondering is that something

1610
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:57,599
that's experienced in the states and

1611
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:59,520
as people who are like you know science

1612
00:56:05,589 --> 00:56:01,520
adjacent in arts and sci-fi like how do

1613
00:56:09,829 --> 00:56:07,430
it's perfectly cool if you're at georgia

1614
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:09,839
tech yeah okay

1615
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:12,000
no um it would be the same thing here in

1616
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:13,440
part it has to do with seniority though

1617
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:14,720
as well and that's true even at tech

1618
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:16,160
that we would certainly encourage

1619
00:56:21,829 --> 00:56:19,359
younger faculty or developing um phds

1620
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:21,839
and younger faculty to maybe not pursue

1621
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:22,960
that stuff i mean take it if it's

1622
00:56:28,549 --> 00:56:26,079
offered but like yeah um publish books

1623
00:56:31,430 --> 00:56:28,559
with peer-reviewed journals yeah presses

1624
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:31,440
and things um but again i think you know

1625
00:56:33,829 --> 00:56:32,559
this is important and something i

1626
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:33,839
actually do like about georgia tech is

1627
00:56:37,990 --> 00:56:35,760
they push those of us who are past

1628
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:38,000
near to develop as public intellectuals

1629
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:39,280
and this is so important we've been

1630
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,280
talking today about the difficulty of

1631
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:43,119
negotiating a sort of black box science

1632
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:45,599
versus a more open science and i think

1633
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:47,119
that you know doing public intellectual

1634
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:48,720
work and doing things like appearing on

1635
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:50,319
shows like tony show being on james

1636
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:51,839
cameron's story of science fiction

1637
00:56:55,109 --> 00:56:53,680
talking in the philadelphia enquirer uh

1638
00:56:56,630 --> 00:56:55,119
like andre

1639
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:56,640
you have to engage and we have to reach

1640
00:57:00,470 --> 00:56:58,240
each other if you want to start to get

1641
00:57:01,910 --> 00:57:00,480
people comfortable with all of these

1642
00:57:03,270 --> 00:57:01,920
things we're talking about and sort of

1643
00:57:05,589 --> 00:57:03,280
the next stage of intellectual and

1644
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:05,599
social development like we gotta keep

1645
00:57:10,549 --> 00:57:06,880
talking to each other and not just

1646
00:57:15,109 --> 00:57:12,630
quick question you said uh people have

1647
00:57:16,710 --> 00:57:15,119
to be more comfortable with uncertainty

1648
00:57:19,109 --> 00:57:16,720
one of the ways you can think about it

1649
00:57:20,870 --> 00:57:19,119
is risk to reward ratio so maybe a

1650
00:57:23,270 --> 00:57:20,880
better way of making people feel more

1651
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:23,280
comfortable is explaining it to them in

1652
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,760
a way that material gain is possible for

1653
00:57:29,190 --> 00:57:27,760
the amount of risk

1654
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:29,200
proportional to

1655
00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:31,680
whatever alien thing could

1656
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:37,510
i guess i'll just wrap it up with this

1657
00:57:39,990 --> 00:57:38,640
and this kind of addresses your question

1658
00:57:42,309 --> 00:57:40,000
earlier i think that like science is

1659
00:57:44,710 --> 00:57:42,319
sort of a mediating

1660
00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:44,720
medium but i'm sorry for the redundancy

1661
00:57:47,910 --> 00:57:46,480
of possibility essentially it's like we

1662
00:57:49,270 --> 00:57:47,920
can be imaginative and we can think up

1663
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:49,280
all the possibilities in the universe

1664
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:50,799
and then we use science to sort of

1665
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:52,480
empirically

1666
00:57:56,470 --> 00:57:54,880
remove those possibilities from the the

1667
00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:56,480
actual and so like this faithful

1668
00:57:59,910 --> 00:57:58,000
possibility that god is the you know

1669
00:58:01,589 --> 00:57:59,920
prime designer that hasn't yet been

1670
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,599
disproven by science it remains as

1671
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:03,119
viable a possibility as all the other

1672
00:58:06,230 --> 00:58:04,640
ones that like whether the stuff that

1673
00:58:07,829 --> 00:58:06,240
you're doing in your lab in australia

1674
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:07,839
but the fact of the matter is if if

1675
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:10,000
there is an infinity of possibilities i

1676
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:11,760
feel like science makes that finite and

1677
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:12,960
i think that's an extraordinary step

1678
00:58:15,589 --> 00:58:14,079
forward and

1679
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:15,599
so like it's it's all it's it's it's

1680
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:17,280
almost like art gives science the

1681
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:18,640
opportunity to

1682
00:58:22,789 --> 00:58:21,119
be a little more judicious adjudicating

1683
00:58:24,069 --> 00:58:22,799
about what could and could not be

1684
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:24,079
but it's like it's a loop and it's a

1685
00:58:36,069 --> 00:58:25,680
feedback you can't do one without the

1686
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:37,190
thank you all for bringing your very

1687
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,640
exploratory questions for your

1688
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:40,240
open-mindedness to the possibility of

1689
00:58:43,589 --> 00:58:41,760
alien existence and thank you three for

1690
00:58:46,870 --> 00:58:43,599
your expertise on the on the possibility

1691
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:46,880
of a human peace or lack thereof when

1692
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:48,480
this happens but i'm i'm hoping for

1693
00:58:55,190 --> 00:58:50,160
peace so can we get a round of applause